John Cena’s media tour continued with Chris Van Vliet to cover his retirement year, heel turn, and reaction to CM Punk’s involvement at Night of Champions in Saudi Arabia.
Cena has had several lengthy interviews over the past week with Joe Rogan, Bill Simmons, and Tom Rinaldi, and the most wrestling-centric chat occurred with Van Vliet and was taped on December 4.
The discussion centered around his heel turn and the schedule he maintained throughout 2025, wrestling eighteen matches, which was his most active year since 2018.
Cena didn’t dwell on what didn’t work throughout the heel turn or offer any insight into the lack of presence by Dwayne Johnson after Elimination Chamber. He did explain his philosophy of trying to “ruin wrestling,” and that meant wrestling a certain way, refusing to give fans an updated look or theme, and revealed that it was Paul Heyman who offered the suggestion of wrestling a more entertaining style after the match with Cody Rhodes at WrestleMania 41.
Cena was nearly brought to tears watching CM Punk’s speech in Saudi Arabia this past June, where he apologized for past remarks about the country, in reference to a tweet sent to The Miz in 2019. After The Miz sent out a veiled tweet about Punk, “Oh, sorry I didn’t change the culture”, Punk responded, “Go suck a blood covered dick in Saudi Arabia you fucking dork.”
Punk made his first trip to Saudi Arabia this past June and apologized for the tweet and claimed he woke up in a bad mood that day and “had nothing to do with the country”.
It was not an isolated view on Saudi Arabia, as Punk had also stated he would never work a show in the country during a 2019 interview with Barstool Sports.
Cena said he was emotional seeing Punk travel to Saudi Arabia and show vulnerability and accountability for his actions, and that it was an example of “cultures melding into each other,” while also praising Punk’s performance as Cena’s rapper gimmick in the lead-up to their match at Night of Champions.
In November 2018, Cena had been scheduled to wrestle at the Crown Jewel event in Saudi Arabia, but pulled out of the show after the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Cena returned to wrestle in the country in November 2023 and again this past June at Night of Champions.
Highlights from the interview:
- When the interview was taped, the final of the Last Time is Now tournament had not happened, and therefore, he was speaking as though he wasn’t aware who the last opponent would be. He did mention that the finals were scheduled to take place on Raw (they took place on the December 5 episode of SmackDown). Later, he said the interview was being taped nine days before the retirement match, and Cena was likely just mixing up when the Knight vs. Gunther match was scheduled.
- He felt he could still use “magic” to compete at the age of 48, but the pace of the product had passed him by.
- He had started planning his retirement around 2022 and pitched it the next year to TKO, and basically had everything planned out by the time he made his announcement at Money in the Bank in July 2024
- One of the biggest hurdles when balancing filming movies and wrestling was the insurance aspect and the potential issue of suffering an injury in the ring during a day off from filming or getting a black eye / broken nose, etc. He indicated he initiated the process of spending his own money with TKO for insurance with the film developers
- The heel turn was not planned in advance and was pitched to him as an idea to create a shocking moment at Elimination Chamber
- It was always planned for him to turn back for the final leg of the retirement run
- The goal of the character was to “ruin the fun” in wrestling, to wrestle methodically, try to “suck” and make it painful for you to watch with Cody Rhodes as the one to save it
- It was Paul Heyman’s idea for Cena to do more in his matches after WrestleMania, which led to the performances with Randy Orton at Backlash and CM Punk at Night of Champions.
- He said Punk going to Saudi Arabia made him cry because he was so happy for Punk to show accountability and vulnerability. Cena was redeemed and can now go to Saudi Arabia anytime. He said that transcends wrestling and bridged cultural gaps through pro wrestling.
- Cena doesn’t dwell on what could have been when asked about The Rock and Travis Scott’s involvement when the heel turn was executed at Elimination Chamber
- The only idea he gave WWE this year was the format for Saturday Night’s Main Event with the NXT talent against main roster talent, and compared it to Kurt Angle volunteering to work with Cena when he was coming up
- His philosophy as a heel was to give the audience nothing, including a new look or theme, because those were elements of change the fans wanted out of a heel turn, and would make it too confusing to change everything and flip back before his retirement
- It was special to him to work with Dominik Mysterio in three of his last four matches, and he loved the way he lost the Intercontinental title at the Survivor Series. He thought he made the title mean something by winning it in Boston, and Dominik becomes bigger by winning it back and giving the title a boost instead of feeling secondary
- Wrestlepalooza was about making Brock Lesnar shine and creating a monster for someone else to beat down the road. Cena felt the “low” of this match for the Cena run created the “high” of his match with AJ Styles the next month in Perth
- The ring introduction for AJ Styles at Crown Jewel was a surprise, and Cena claimed he didn’t tell anyone in production or Alicia Taylor until passing her the introduction
- His body feels awful after eighteen matches this year, and he is tired; it takes him longer to get ready before and recover after
- “There is no chance” he will wrestle again and is excited for life after wrestling, and it’s not his entire life, while noting how many other performers have had a hard time moving on
- He has always tried to be invested, professional, reliable, and coachable, and that overcomes not being the most talented or gifted
- Acknowledged he needed to find balance in his life and was addicted to working hard, but came at the loss of friendships and enjoying other areas of life
- He played word association with Cody Rhodes (“Resilient”), Randy Orton (“Smooth”), CM Punk (“My wrestling soulmate”), R-Truth (“Beautiful” and makes everyone smile), Sami Zayn (“Underdog”), Logan Paul (“Underrated”), Drew McIntyre (“Another story of resilience”), Brock Lesnar (“The best” and there will only be one Lesnar in wrestling), AJ Styles (“Best to ever do it”), Sheamus (“World’s Tallest Wrestler” and called it an inside joke”), and Rey Mysterio (“A mentor”)
